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botlab:openmeeting_20150325 [2015/03/29 15:02]
dwyatt
botlab:openmeeting_20150325 [2019/05/04 00:09]
felix.h ↷ Links adapted because of a move operation
Line 27: Line 27:
   - Apologies: Erica B, Mark P   - Apologies: Erica B, Mark P
   - Points from last meeting:   - Points from last meeting:
-    Fire cover: landlord is happy for us to provide our own additional fire safety precautions above the building's fire alarm system, but we must take responsibility for it and arrange for our own training in how to use it. JW has obtained quote for £200 for 2 CO2 & 2 foam extinguishers, £42/yr for 4 years for maintenance from [http://stafffiretraining.co.uk/ 1st Attendance Ltd.] DW: how should we decide about expediture to meet H&S/statutory requirements? MV: discuss/vote as committee outside this meeting. RC/MH: Get in touch with local fire brigade for advice? JW: actually fire brigade tend not to support individual fire-fighting. Voted to defer this to committee meeting - close to unanimous. +    Fire cover: landlord is happy for us to provide our own additional fire safety precautions above the building's fire alarm system, but we must take responsibility for it and arrange for our own training in how to use it. JW has obtained quote for £200 for 2 CO2 & 2 foam extinguishers, £42/yr for 4 years for maintenance from [[http://stafffiretraining.co.uk/|1st Attendance Ltd.]] DW: how should we decide about expediture to meet H&S/statutory requirements? MV: discuss/vote as committee outside this meeting. RC/MH: Get in touch with local fire brigade for advice? JW: actually fire brigade tend not to support individual fire-fighting. Voted to defer this to committee meeting - close to unanimous. 
-    New mains sockets in G10: landlord happy for us to do this in a similar fashion to the ones in G11, i.e. we should plan what we need and & get a quote from [bv_studios_approved_contractors|an approved contractor] - TS is working on producing a design for this +    New mains sockets in G10: landlord happy for us to do this in a similar fashion to the ones in G11, i.e. we should plan what we need and & get a quote from [[bv_studios_approved_contractors|an approved contractor]] - TS is working on producing a design for this 
-    Wired broadband: not allowed at the moment +    Wired broadband: not allowed at the moment 
-    Monthly workshop series: going well, 3rd one upcoming & is sold out +    * [[http://bristol.hackspace.org.uk/events/|Monthly workshop series]]: going well, 3rd one upcoming & is sold out 
-    Buying nuts & bolts: MV hasn't done yet, will do+    Buying nuts & bolts: MV hasn't done yet, will do so soon
   - Laser cutter:   - Laser cutter:
-    No procedure for making large purchases as yet +    No procedure for making large purchases as yet 
-    DW: BOTLab constitution doesn't govern how the hackspace is run +    DW: BOTLab constitution doesn't govern how the hackspace is run - purely specifies how the governance structure of BOTLab works, and provides for existence of a committee to oversee the space 
-    JW: identify which things we could buy, then choose which one to buy, then finances, finally administration +    JW: 4 aspects to making a big purchase: identify which things we could buy, then choose which one to buy, then define how finances will workand finally administration of usage etc. 
-    Finances:  +    Finances:  
-      JW proposes that we could put some of the surplus each month into a fund for long-term purchases - each member can vote for how to spend their share each month, or vote for it to be reserved for later +      JW proposes that we could put some of the surplus income each month into a fund for long-term large purchases - each member could vote for how to spend their share of the surplus each month, or vote for it to be reserved for later 
-      Pledges: what do they mean? generally a gift without  +      Pledges: what do they mean? generally a gift without any string attached 
-      Ownership model: co-ownership is generally viewed as a bad thing  +      Ownership model: co-ownership is generally viewed as a bad thing due to complexities of people wanting to sell their shares 
-    JE: bought a laser cutter in Vienna some years ago - came across same sorts of issues discussion is mostly between small number of people, not clear what the opinion of the remainder is - also hasn't seen any clear proposal as yet, often discussion is diverted into details rather than producing a clear overall proposal - e.g. should be written down somewhere if we decide we won't rely on external finance - would prefer hackspace to own all tools, surprised at lack of clarity over ownership/inductions for tools - surprised at need to have an induction for bandsaw, & low availability/clarity of who can do the inductions - would prefer say 5 people who can do all inductions rather than having to wait for specific people +    JE: bought a laser cutter in Vienna some years ago - came across same sorts of issues as we've encountered. Observed that discussion on mailing list is mostly between small number of people, not clear what the opinion of the remainder is. Also hasn't seen any clear proposal as yet, often discussion is diverted into details rather than producing a clear overall proposal. If there are guidelines they should be codified somewhere, e.g. if we decide we won't rely on external finance. Would prefer hackspace to own all tools, surprised at lack of clarity over ownership/inductions for tools - surprised at need to have an induction for bandsaw, & low availability/clarity of who can do the inductions - would prefer say 5 people who can do all inductions rather than having to wait for specific people to be available. 
-    ER: current laser is unreliable, only kept running by RC's efforts +    ER: current laser is unreliable, only kept running by RC's efforts 
-    MV: narrow discussion down to financing models? voted - yes +    MV: narrow discussion down to financing models? voted - yes 
-    JW: happy for people to get money back, but only at the rate at which initial purchase is being repaid - effectively an unguaranteed loan - people could be repaid either in money or in time, doesn't matter - people could even loan money to hackspace +    JW: happy for people who put up initial funds to get money back, but only at the average rate that the initial purchase cost is being repaid - becomes effectively an unsecured loan from members to hackspace - people could be repaid either in money or in time, doesn't matter - people could even loan money to hackspace in purely financial terms if they felt it was a good thing 
-    JM: suggest crowdsourcing model - e.g. £6/hr base rateor £3/hr to cover running costs only + £20/month or £240/yr +    JM: suggest crowdfunding model to raise funds - e.g. if running costs are £3/hr, have a £6/hr base rate with options to pay £20/month + £3/hr or £240/yr (?+£3/hr?) 
-    ER: model of paying upfront for hours - simpler to administer +    ER: or just pay upfront for certain number of hours - simpler to administer 
-    JE: uncomfortable about having to pay for use of laser - or at least to divide membership between haves & haven-nots +    JE: uncomfortable about having distinctions between different "types" of hackspace members depending on what they've paid for, could end up having "lasercutter members", "3d printer members" etc. 
-    TG: analogy with gliding club's purchase of hangar - people paid upfront for a space in the hangar, £10k for 20yrs - could then sell on the space in the hangar if they left +    TG: analogy with gliding club's purchase of hangar - people paid upfront for a space in the hangar, £10k for 20yrs - could then sell on the space in the hangar if they left, at a fixed price that was pro-rated by the fraction of the 20yrs left remaining 
-    - ?or: don't be exclusive - don't have any loans, only buy the laser cutter if the hackspace can afford it - possibly supplemented by   +    * MT: don't be exclusive - don't have any loans, only buy the laser cutter if the hackspace can afford itsupplemented by donations/pledges 
-    JD: set a value, say £50, and invite pure no-strings-attached donations of that amount to try to raise funds - could give benefits e.g. prioprity tuition: DH  +    JD: set a value, say £50, and invite pure no-strings-attached donations of that amount to try to raise funds - DH: could give benefits e.g. priority on tuition 
-    - Reserve amountreported current bank situation, people discussed whether 1yr or 6months appropriate  +    * Amount to keep in reserve in bank accountDW reported current bank situation. People discussed whether 1yr or 6months reserve is appropriate. DW: could scale back our rental if necessary given that we aren't tied into a contract with BV Studios. 
-    - ? +    MT: issues committee need to decide: how much to keep in free cash, whether to take on loans - worst case scenario: space burns flat to the ground, we have nothing, starting from scratch - yes we might have fewer rental expenses, but equally we might lose members rapidly if we didn't have anything to offer them.  
-    - MT: issues committee need to decide: how much to keep in free cash, whether to take on loans - worst case scenario: space burns flat to the ground, we have nothing, starting from scratch -  +    MV: **Action:** come up with proposal for amount of reserve, run pass membership and discuss at next committee meeting. But in general we still need a model for buying large eqpt. 
-    MV: come up with proposal for amount of reserve, run pass membership and discuss with next cttee mtg. But in general we still need a model for buying large eqpt. +    JW: uncomfortable with people giving lots of money and not getting anything in return - perhaps have donations up to a certain amount but anything above that gets you a number of hourse 
-    JW: uncomfortable with people giving lots of money and not getting anything else - perhaps  +    ER: We're all trustworthy => don't need to centrally administer usage, use trust-based system - contentious, people preferred some accountability. 
-    ER: use trust-based system - contentious,  +    TG: concerned about mixing CAPEX & OPEX 
-    TG: concerned about mixing CAPEX & OPEX +    JD: what is a large purchase? what's the threshold? above £200?  
-    JD: what is a large purchase? what's the threshold? above £200?  +    RC: Lauren was happy with the idea of getting rid of her machine - she could sell it and contribute the money in some way to our buying a new machine. Amount in question? originally cost £30k, new lasers for it cost £5k => probably £thousands. NM: she was only interested in ccontributing to the new one if it would be A0 
-    RC: Lauren was happy with the idea of getting rid of her machine - she could sell it and contribute the money in some way to our buying a new machine. Amount? originally cost £30k, new lasers cost £5k =>  +    MV: how do we decide how much of hackspace funds are contributed to it? NM: decide what we want to buy collectively, find how much money we can raise, hackspace has to fund the remainder? 
-    MV: how do we decide how much of hackspace funds are contributed to it? NM: deicde what we want to buy, find how much money we can raise, hackspace has to fund the remainder? +    RD: given that we have a working machine, could we get a maintenance contract on it
-    RD: move forward from having a working machine get a maintenance contract on the current one+    * Individual purchase thresholds: MH: <£80 is petty cash? JW: £500 reserve kept for small purchases? NM: £1000; put remainder into "pot" for large purchases; if we want to buy something, put up a proposal & use money in the large-purchases fund 
-    MH: <£80 is petty cash? JW: £500 for reserve for small purchases? NM: £1000; put remainder into "pot" for large purchases; if we want to buy something, put up a proposal &  +    RC: current usage rates of laser cutter? Lauren has a logbook but uncollated - no data on it as yet. If we wanted to, we could. 
-    RC: current usage rates of laser cutter? Lauren has a logbook but uncollated - no data on it as yet +    NM: if current machine broke irreparably, how many people would want the space to buy a replacement of some sort? ~10 - TG: How many people would want an equivalent machine to the current one? ~5 
-    NM: if current machine broke, how many people would want the space to buy a replacement of some sort? ~10 - TG: How many people want an equivalent machine to the current one? +    MH: What fraction of current membership use the laser cutter? MV: most used piece of equipmentanecdotally many people use it - RC: often on a Thursday people will come along with a design and ask him to cut it for them if they aren't inducted - JE: regards laser as a basic tool for a hackspace, so not worth discussing whether we should have one 
-    MH: What fraction of current membership use tool? MV: most used tool, many people anecdotally  - JE: regards laser as a basic tool for a hackspace, so not worth discussing if we should have one +    How do we decide what sort of cutter to get/how many people would use it? survey is a good tool 
-    How do we decide? survey is a good tool +    NM: if the space agreed we should get a smaller cutter and could fund it, he is prepared (within reason) to top up funding to upgrade to A0 size 
-    NM offers to put in difference to fund size upgrade from smaller to larger if it got to A0 +    Discussion on size of laser cutter - having a larger size is beneficial, can we get one with feed-through so we can cut large panels in small sections? 
-    Discussion on size of laser cutter - having a larger size is beneficial, can we get  +    MV: proposed process for large item purchase(**Action:** will write up and circulate. UPDATE: [[botlab:hsproposals:large_proposal_process|draft available]]) 
-    MV: process againinterested parties put together a proposalpitch it to committee - if they agree, then it'pitched to the membership to raise pledges for the money with a time limit +      * Interested parties put together a proposal 
-    MT: develop analogy with Kickstarter further - have stretch goals in the proposal so proposal can adapt to money available +      * They pitch it to committee 
-    NM: he elicited feedback from forum on HPC and JustAddSharks, or lasersaur ?TUG have just made a post on 7months after  +      * If committee agree that it's financially viable, then it'put to the membership to raise pledges for the money with a time limit 
-    DH: could get feedback from London on A0 JAS cutter, ST has contacts in other hackspaces e.g. Cambs to get +    MT: develop analogy with Kickstarter further - have stretch goals in the proposal so proposal can adapt to money available - e.g. upgrading to larger size laser cutter 
-    KB: informal vote on how much to keep - reduce reserve to 6months rent? ~5people vote to reduce to 6months, ~3people (including treasurer - DW) vote *not* to - treasurer suggests 6months rent + an amount +    NM: he elicited feedback from forum on which sort of laser cutter to get, consensus was HPC or JustAddSharks, or DIY Lasersaur MTTOG have just made [[http://www.tog.ie/2015/03/tog-laser-is-alive/|blog post about 7 months after finishing their lasersaur build]] 
-    ? How much would Lauren sell us that laser for? NM: Lauren mumbled £10k +    DH: could get feedback from London on A0 JustAddSharks cutter, ST has contacts in other hackspaces e.g. Cambs to get further feedback on different models 
-    NM not prepared to put in work to generate proposal for less than A0 +    KB: informal vote on how much to keep in reserve - reduce reserve to 6months rent? ~5people vote to reduce to 6months, ~3people (including treasurer - DW) vote *not* to - DW: 12 months rent is perhaps excessive reserve, but would prefer >6 months rent e.g. 6 months £2000 
-    How much for a single-item limit for this kickstarter process? say £300? +    ?How much would Lauren sell us that laser for? NM: Lauren mumbled £10k 
-    MT: [[http://bristol.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=disaster_preparedness|Disaster recovery plan]] for HS? Draft now on the wiki for comment. +    NM: is not interested in preparing a proposal if we end up with less than an A0 cutter 
-    - ? Using assets as part of reserves? can't do this unless we have insurance +    How much should be the limit for what can be bought through the 5+3 supporters process, and the threshold for the more formal process? say £300? 
-    MT: Note that fundraising for such a purchase would be a good recruitment drive opportunity - do we do  +    MT: Do we need a [[http://bristol.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=disaster_preparedness|disaster recovery plan]] for the space, partly to try to analyse how much reserve it is appropriate to keepUPDATE: Draft now on the wiki for comment. 
-    - TG: need to have  +    * JT: Can we count assets as part of the reserves, in the sense that we could liquidate them to raise money? can't do this unless we have appropriate insurance, otherwise if the space burns down then we don't have any assets! And at the moment we don't have contents insurance. 
- +    MT: Note that fundraising for such a purchase would be a good opportunity for a recruitment drive opportunity 
-Actions?: +    * Summary of actions for committee around lasercutter purchase 
-  define purchasing policy +       Define purchasing policy 
-  - reserves to keep in bank account +       Define reserves to keep in bank account 
-19 attendees+       - Define process for agreeing large purchases
  
    
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  • Last modified: 2 years ago
  • by felix.h